tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20782819.post3839452884336889010..comments2023-11-12T13:22:30.358+01:00Comments on andrewjshields: Trying and failing vs. trying to failAndrew Shieldshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02804655739574694901noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20782819.post-81733067549818026162009-03-12T21:59:00.000+01:002009-03-12T21:59:00.000+01:00Mark: "some allegiance with its roots": that's a g...Mark: "some allegiance with its roots": that's a good way to put something that often gets forgotten.<BR/><BR/>It may be very hard to define what jazz is today, but music that has no allegiance to the roots of jazz (New Orleans, Armstrong, etc.) does not deserve to be called jazz.<BR/><BR/>That's something audible in music, I think, but much harder to define in poetry -- especially for anyone who has not read the roots of poetry in Homer, Sappho, etc.Andrew Shieldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02804655739574694901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20782819.post-78984063069863132432009-03-10T18:22:00.000+01:002009-03-10T18:22:00.000+01:00Interesting thought.Eye opening,in a way.NO, I am ...Interesting thought.<BR/><BR/>Eye opening,in a way.<BR/><BR/>NO, I am not trying to fail here.<BR/><BR/>Just thinking.greg rappleyehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16498560951002730878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20782819.post-37109726360222034922009-03-08T15:13:00.000+01:002009-03-08T15:13:00.000+01:00I like that: the fragmentary text that "tries to f...I like that: the fragmentary text that "tries to fail". Sadly, I have never read Derrida (I find lit. theories heavy going at the best of times). But this self-destructive impulse is exactly the kind thing I have suspected for some time. Of course, all art fails; in a way the process is largely ABOUT failure, since no work can actually embody/distill human experience. But nobody can escape the fact that language is helplessly referential, and this referentiality isn't a mere passing fashion. To crash phrases/sentences into head-on collisions; to propagate narratives that can't be arsed (that give up as soon as they begin); to clobber the reader over the head with THIS IS A MERE TEXT AND DON'T FORGET IT; to try to divest poetry of imagery/music/meaning etc. is to try to bite its nose off (along with its ears, eyes, lips, tongue...) in order to remake its face. I don't believe that poets should be quaint little balladeers, nor that all poems should obviously "mean something". But I do believe that good poetry will always have some allegiance (however tentative) with its primeval roots in song and story. Simple-minded perhaps, but there you are.Mark Granierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09899629187771913398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20782819.post-53405344834965477262009-03-08T12:43:00.000+01:002009-03-08T12:43:00.000+01:00But by their failure they succeed in getting on th...But by their failure they succeed in getting on the bandwagon - or am I being too cynical? A very illuminating critique, nonetheless. Thanks for it.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.com