tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20782819.post6246206224417770131..comments2023-11-12T13:22:30.358+01:00Comments on andrewjshields: My GirlsAndrew Shieldshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02804655739574694901noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20782819.post-75701422504633549442010-04-11T22:47:48.870+02:002010-04-11T22:47:48.870+02:00Thanks for the recommendation Andrew I have asked ...Thanks for the recommendation Andrew I have asked the library to get me a copy.<br />Martinemartinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14260048849955077472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20782819.post-51608877668065103522010-04-07T22:54:28.201+02:002010-04-07T22:54:28.201+02:00Martine, one example that keeps coming to mind for...Martine, one example that keeps coming to mind for me is a poem by Paul Celan that John Felstiner translated as "The Vintagers." I can't find it on-line, but it's in John's "Selected Poetry and Prose of Paul Celan" book, and there's surely a version by Michael Hamburger, too. If you can't locate it, I can send you a copy.<br /><br />That poem describes an experience while also creating an experience for the reader that is quite similar to the one the poem describes.Andrew Shieldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02804655739574694901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20782819.post-10690628728468002132010-04-07T21:22:13.538+02:002010-04-07T21:22:13.538+02:00Thank you for the very interesting discussion. The...Thank you for the very interesting discussion. The distinction seems to be very subtle. Perhaps you could point me to an example of a poem that does 'create a feeling of its own'. I think maybe individual response to any poem is often dependant on one's own experiences, that you relate to what you read in the light of them. <br />Thanks, I always learn something reading here.<br />martinemartinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14260048849955077472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20782819.post-91171569356600463642010-04-07T13:52:33.212+02:002010-04-07T13:52:33.212+02:00What's at issue here is the anecdotal quality ...What's at issue here is the anecdotal quality of so much poetry - this happened to me and I felt deeply about it and I wanted to share it. I sympathise with the view that a poem has to do more, otherwise it becomes wistful and flat. I'm not sure Robin Robertson's becomes that. The other question your post brings up is the way readers identify with particular experiences - trying to get children to sleep - and not others: a boy with wax wings falling out of the sky. The former will have more takers, though not be better, necessarily, thereby. I like Gide's comment: les familles, je vous hais!Padraig Rooneynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20782819.post-64317420668780731952010-04-07T08:57:13.796+02:002010-04-07T08:57:13.796+02:00Jonathan Mayhew happened to address the same issue...Jonathan Mayhew happened to address the same issue yesterday:<br /><br />"Poetry cannot just talk about this marvel of being consciously alive discursively; it has to actually embody that experience in the density of its language. It is not talking about ecstatic experience as a theme that interests me. In fact, what I like oftentimes is poetry that does not seem to be talking about this at all."<br /><br />http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/2010/04/ive-never-really-been-much-for-themes.html<br /><br />Poetry as *embodying* an experience, not "just" describing an experience. That's the position I was trying to articulate. But again, even though I am willing to admit that Robertson's poem does not "embody" the experience it describes (it does not make the reader experience a similar trajectory of love and a necessary deceit), I still find poems like it to be completely valid as a form.Andrew Shieldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02804655739574694901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20782819.post-24057184473691542082010-04-06T23:12:55.804+02:002010-04-06T23:12:55.804+02:00I think I know what you mean :) And I think Pound&...I think I know what you mean :) And I think Pound's 'show don't tell' is largely to blame for it. It's so ingrained in my thinking, for one, that I stuggle to really value this kind of poem in the collection.Marion McCreadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04657757253873577465noreply@blogger.com